tv Morning Joe MSNBC March 31, 2011 6:00am-9:00am EDT
and it's opening day, biff write, "opening day at yankee stadium makes this the best day of the year for some. "way too early" makes every day of the year the best day for me. while "way too early" and a little jamieson" -- >> i know it wasn't just jamieson. >> wasn't just "way too early" making your day. is your name really biff? "morning joe" from washington, starts right now. >> obama's policies are hurting the economy. >> obama care is a disaster. >> it is maybe the most passive and out of touch presidency in modern american history. >> we don't like this radical socialism that's being shoved down our throats. >> boring, out of touch, disastrous, radicalist, socialist. does anyone want to win this [ bleep ] race? >> why doesn't he show his birth certifica
certificate? >> you know what i did yesterday, it was interesting. i said where's my birth certificate? get me my birth certificate and they brought it to my office. i have it. >> i said dip my birth certificate in gold and give it some fake [ bleep ] and put it in my bedroom. that's the way it is, trump 2012. i'm hired. >> he's got that voice back again. >> yes, does he. >> a rainy morning in washington. 6:00 on the east coast. good morning, everyone. welcome to "morning joe." it's thursday, march 31st. joe's back. you're back. >> i am. yes. sort of. >> with us on set here in washington we have msnbc political analyst pat buchanan. also with us nbc news capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell. good to have you and political reporter for the huffington post sam stein. willie geist holding down the fort in new york. >> trump was on o'riley last night.
chris licht told me o'riley is doing this three-part special with donald. we have clips coming up. he talks about 30 minutes for birth certificates and things like that and karl rove and dick morris break it down in the back half of the hour. how was that last night, chris? what do you think of that? chris licht. >> vintage o'riley. vintage o'riley. >> so o'riley, as chris said, was the voice of reason. >> nothing there. >> so donald, though, come on, pat. donald is going out on this birther thing. i know you were loving it when he was going after china and brutalized them. why is he veering so much into this birth certificate stuff? >> if everybody is putting that on the air and that's the donald, that narrows the appeal he's got. polls show he's right up there with romney. i don't know that that's realistic.
people are waiting to hear what the donald has to say. >> he starts with this. >> exactly. >> that's the puzzling thing. >> the thing is we've had a bad economy right now. it would seem to me, kelly, that he's a billionaire many times over. he's had ups, he's had downs but people, americans, it's like ross perot, they look up to billionaires for whatever reason. >> it's the dream. >> fix the economy, donald. he's talking about birth certificates. >> that's what's so puzzling. if we're talking economy, the whole notion of the ceo president that people sometimes say that's a way to go. people are fascinated by his capacity to build and build and build and everything is terrific. his favorite word, it's terrific. >> terrific. >> it's hard to imagine why he thinks the birth certificate way to go is appealing except it has been effective. it's gotten him in the conversation day after day after day. >> he was in the conversation. >> he was already in the conversation. >> it's about getting headlines.
that's what we were talking about this morning. he's good at that. >> he could set that hair on fire and he could do that, too. i don't get it. let's run a few clips and we can get the news. it's a train wreck we have to watch. i'm sorry. i'm back, okay? >> people have birther is kif c -- certificates. maybe it says he's a muslim, i don't know. maybe he doesn't want that the or he may not have one. i will tell you this, if he wasn't born in this country, it's one of the great scams. >> absolutely. >> but i don't think that's the case. >> you don't but i'm starting to think -- >> i think it's provocative you get a lot of attention raising the question. i don't think you believe it. >> i grew up with wall street geniuses. what they do in terms of fraud and how they change documents. i tell you something, if you notice those dates were three days later. here's what i ask people. who puts announcements -- here,
two poor people, a man and a woman with no money to have a baby, the announcements in the newspapers. >> the grandparents did it. >> nelson rockefeller doesn't put announcements. >> there are birth announcements all the time. >> i've never seen one. >> they're common. >> what's he doing? >> never seen one? >> never seen a birth announcement? >> i mean, well, okay, let's be honest. there was a birth announcement -- >> can we get to libya? >> and unless they planted that story when obama was born, knowing that in 45 years -- >> seriously. is this the adjustment bureau of barack obama? are there men in hats going around, we will put a birth certificate here. seriously. mika, you talk to this guy every day. tell him to go back to bashing
>> what does it stay about the state of the republican party. >> i think it's insulting that we're talking about the birth certificate issue again. we shouldn't play into it. >> whoa, welcome back. >> if donald trump who's a figure out there who's running well in the polls is going to that issue, very to cover it. >> no, we don't. that's ridiculous. >> willie geist, in all of the editorial meetings at the start of the show, you're saying let's lead with the birther stuff, let's lead with the birther stuff. we did it today because it's april fool's. by the way, parents, it's april fool's day tomorrow. >> we have the perfect story for you for that. >> we have a perfect story for tomorrow. >> willie geist. donald is following your lead here talking about the birther story. >> you know i'm one of the country's leading birthers, joe. i used to this this was a cynical political play as bill o'reilly said to be provocative. having talked to donald, it
seems to me he really believes there's something here and he'll keep pushing on this and he believes it helps him in a republican primary where we have polls out that show now more than 50% of likely republican voters believe president obama was not born in the united states. so despite our protests, it sounds like donald will keep riding this horse. >> stop it! can i be serious for a second about this. >> yes. >> you know what, it's seven after the hour. now would probably be a good time to talk about how the cia is in libya. >> you all are afraid to say it. everyone likes to start this with i like donald trump very much. you know what, i don't like this. this promotes hate and it brings us back. i don't care how serious he feels about it, there are more important things we need to be talking about. everyone wanted to hear what he had to say because of exactly where we are in time in this country and people were beginning to look at him.
i'm sorry, this is say bad call. okay? >> agreed. >> you didn't have the guts to say it. none of you had the guts to say it. i'll say it. love ya but it doesn't work. and it's mean. >> i'm just glad we're not talking about food coloring this morning. >> i saw that on the "cbs evening news" last night. they packaged it. it's about food colong. >> the cia is in libya, don't we want to talk about that. >> does it increase hyperactivity in children? it's a big question. >> for the love of god, let's talk about libya. although president obama has insisted no ground troops will see action in libya, cia officers are apparently in the ground in libya coordinating with rebels an sharing intelligence. in fact, president obama reportedly signed an order authorizing the action within the last two or three weeks. the white house has not decided to take the further step of
providing weapons to the opposition. >> these people that are in libya right now, these americans, i take it, sam stein, they're not wearing boots, right? >> as we know. >> because there won't be boots on the ground. but there are boots on the ground. >> americans are on the ground providing -- >> hold up. hold up. hold up. >> hold on a second now. >> are you kidding me? >> we put the cia into yemen and -- >> no, no, no, i'd do it in a second but i wouldn't tell americans that there weren't americans there. >> this is becoming a tiptoe towards war. more or less we are there by definition. but we're not saying it. these are american forces, they are on the ground, providing intelligence, doing what you and i or any reasonable person would do. it is a war. >> marco rubio is sending a letter to mitch mcconnell and he's saying let's come out for regime change. let's back the president, push the president to doing what he's doing already, that is
overthrowing gadhafi. the president, i'm sorry, i wrote an op-ed in politico, we're talking about it here, he's being hypocritical. just come out and say we want to remove him from power. if he does that, fine. >> i think there's a lot of credence to what you're saying. we are in a midgame here, everyone knows the end has to be removed. as long as he's pushing back the rebels, which is what's happening according to news reports right now. then we're in a bind. we have to consider putting boots on the ground, arming the rebels. >> why doesn't he come out and say we are going to take out gadhafi? he'd catch a lot less grief. >> he does not will the end the removal of gadhafi because he is unable right now in his mind to will the means. if you say he has to get out thereof, you'll have to arm the rebels, train them, bring american fighter bombers -- >> pat, that's reality. gadhafi cannot survive. everybody knows he cannot survive. >> that means you have to will
the means. he's gone if we have to send the marines up to tripoli and take him out thereof. obama is not prepared to will the means. >> kelly, is this about the president not wanting to upset democrats more than anything else? >> i think the president probably did not envision he would be in a position to have to make some of these decisions when he had been so strong about opposition to iraq and there are similarities to how he is describing this. certainly he's had to push things forward in afghanistan and i think this is a very uncomfortable place for him to be. and i think that if you look at the end game and how uncertain that is, it is a very torim iklem, sam's got it right, he's in this middle ground, sort of this dead zone where he has to go on tv and says, this is about a humanitarian mission. but it's not. we don't want to remove gadhafi but i don't think he should survive. the president's finding himself in a difficult position and it
may just be easier to say we have engaged him. he is now our enemy, we must win this war. >> i think he's in a difficult position if you look at this in the terms of the 2 -hour news cycle and pick apart everything minute by minute. if you look at how he has accomplished every step of this from beginning to end it has been thought out. i think we need to wait just a little bit longer. >> answer the question, why are we there? >> why are we there? >> oh, come on. >> why are we there? >> we are there to -- >> exactly. >> it's a humanitarian mission. we're there for oil and we're there for -- >> there's two problems with that. because you can always respond and say if we're going into libya, why not go into darfur. >> agreed. agreed. >> why aren't we in sudan? >> i'm talking about carrying -- >> libya doesn't provide our oil. there are problems with that. >> then you get rid of gadhafi. let me tell you, it's obama versus gadhafi right now and the world knows that. if gadhafi survives, what
tactics will he use to retaliate? he may blow up airliners, massacre people. if you say the guy's got to go and you're the president of the united states and the super power, he's got to go. >> i do agree with that. do i think in terms of getting collective action, support from around the world and waiting him out, there has been a methodical approach to this. >> sam stein. >> he was diligent. mika's right about this. he was diligent and thoughtful of going through the process of getting the support, making it an international mission. the means, the end game wasn't defined. we're in this middle ground where we are engaged in regime change but we're not going to say it. >> kelly? >> what's interesting is what you're saying about if you don't go further, what are the consequences? if you look back in history, you have some republicans talking about what happened in '19, leaving saddam hussein in power after the gulf war. i think on the world stage it is obama versus gadhafi. it's not sarkozy. it's not the prime minister of
england cameron, it's just not. it's obama. >> pat and i especially praised the president for the leadup to this. i thought it was great that he waited for france. he waited for england. he waited for the arab league to step out there. that to us, at least, while a lot of neocons hate it, to us, i think that showed the type of restraint american presidents needed to show. we fumbled and bumbled our way in there. he hasn't defined the mission. if you want to talk about the reality of the situation, is barack obama versus gadhafi. this say man that's already blown up an airliner filled with college students. he cannot survive. >> i do agree with thank the president needs to come out and say, this regime cannot survive. as much as i did not want americans there, let's stop playing games. pat, let's stop saying no boots on the ground. he needs to go all in. because he cannot survive. everybody in the world knows
that. >> if you say he's got to go, and the gang out there in benghazi can't do it quite obviously, even with american air force, then you've got to say, look, in the last analysis if we have to do a northern alliance with americans going in there and throwing him out, that's what we've got to do because he cannot survive. but you've got to make the command decision and then everything falls into place. >> this is what too many times american leaders do, they stumble into a war like this. where we now put ourselves into a position where gadhafi can't survive but who replaces gadhafi? we don't know. is it going to be elements of al qaeda? it's a horrible situation. this shoot first and ask questions later -- >> i just don't think that's how -- >> that's where we are, mika. >> he did not shoot first. >> he took 31 days. wdotkno' replacing gadhafi. who's going t replace gadhafi? he doesn't know. we're in a terrible position. >> yes. >> terrible position. >> maybe donald trump will go
run libya. >> this president hasn't put us in a terrible position. okay? again, how he has carried out reacting to a crisis that came to his desk has been methodical. >> it was not lindsey graham who ordered over 100 at t cmmdein hief. >>it. exactly excuse me exactly. >> if you do that, you're pregnant. >> what? did you -- >> you're pregnant. into the car, friend. >> interesting. >> okay. >> let's go before we start doing metaphors. let's go. coming up on the set, jeb hensarling, elijah cummings, al hunt and andrea mitchell coming up. what's driving a new divide in the gop? first, here's your baseball opening day forecast with bill karins.
mika, not going to be the most beautiful day in the world. if you're sitting outdoors today, the nationals are starting their season this afternoon in washington, d.c. the yankees have opening day, too. both locations it's going to be gloomy and cool. they'll see on and off rain. this isn't the nor'easter. this is part one. part two will be later on tonight. we have light rain, anywhere from d.c. to baltimore, all the way up to new york city, carry the umbrella, including hartford and boston. later tonight is when the snow arrives. winter storm warnings for areas outside of new york city and northern jersey. winter storm warnings for albany, all of vermont, new hampshire and maine. those are the areas that will see the heaviest snows. the big cities, mostly rain with snow on the outside. burlington, alban anywhere, you could have a snow day tomorrow, kids. it could be shoveling, too. for boston, providence and new york, just a coating of snow on the backside of the storm. mostly cold rain for everyone.
travel delays possible over the next two days. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. capital one has asked yours truly to talk about the venture card "match my miles" challenge. they're so confident their miles are better, they'll match the miles you've earned on your airline credit card -- up to 100,000 -- on a new venture card. it's unbelievable. believe it. venture card miles are good on any airline, anytime. it's like an upgrade from this... to this. sign up for a venture card at capitalone.com today and get up to 100,000 miles. what's in your wallet? impressive, right?
>> oh, my god. i like the one sock look. >> i know. >> let's take a look at the morning papers. >> "usa today," republican presidential debate scheduled for may 2nd in california. now delayed, because there aren't enough candidates. that's a relief. tim pawlenty is the only major gop candidate to announce an exploratory committee. the debate co-hosted by nbc news and politico will be moved to september. >> tim pawlenty -- >> i stumble into the living room yesterday in florida. i turn on the tv and i'm watching tim pawlenty on "morning joe" where he's had, let's admit it, really bad performances here. he was really good yesterday. i mean, for me -- did you see
pawlenty here? >> he was good. >> he was on his toes. he was aggressive. he brushed -- i guess it was two days ago. he brushed aside that birther stuff. donny asked him a tough question about what would you do with the economy? it's one, two, three, four. he was really impressive, i have to say for the first time on the national stage. >> did you have anything do with that? >> he's gathering up staff behind the scenes, he's gathering up people in place. he's making inroads in new hampshire and iowa. the background game is what's really impressive. >> the republican party hasn't had a lot to be cheerful about but i was positive about his performance. >> i think he's got to win iowa. >> he's got to win iowa. and then hope for something good in new hampshire. >> "wall street journal." >> "the wall street journal," a new memoir by microsoft co-founder paul allen is rewriting the history of the most store rid partnerships in modern business. it makes clear that bill gates
and paul allen had a far more troubled relationship than it publicly known. >> "new york times," gabrielle giffords's long-time aides are whispering she just might recover in time to join the senate race next year for jon kyl's vacated seat. it's having an affect on arizona politics as other perspective democratic candidates are hesitant to jump in until she bows out. that would be something. >> that would. let's take it one step at a time, though. also, "new york times" in the, the world cup of cricket. and this is something that, you know, pat buchanan has followed for decades now. they offered a unique opportunity for diplomacy between india and pakistan. while the two rival countries battled each other on the pitch, their leaders agreed to sit down at the game and discuss their differences. india won the match by 29 runs. >> all right. time now for politico. with us now, the executive
editor tore politico, jim vandehei who is here with the morning playbook. jim. >> good morning. >> i take it your top story or the one we're starting this morning are the tensions in the gop. what's driving this divide. >> the budget and how deep those cuts willing on the republican side. you have the tea party doing protests throughout the day, hearing for michele bachmann, steve king, newt gingrich. they'll be talking about going for bigger cuts and not compromising even if there needs to be a government shutdown. i'd like to hear from joe on this one. the newt gingrich, the father of riding voter disgust into office and riding his party off the cliff is now talking to these members who the voter discuss. i'm sure john boehner is happy that newt gingrich is stirring up trouble today for the compromise he's trying to craft. >> of course you'll remember what's so fascinating is the
last time newt gingrich gave the speech on the house floor as speaker of the house is when he was attacking people like me and other conservatives, because he said we wanted to cut too much spending. remember that speech in '98 we teamed up with gephardt and he attacked us as the perfectionist caucus. that was his last speech. and now he's coming back and i guess he's fiscally conservative again. it's a fascinating turn of events for newt gingrich, isn't it? >> it is. it's a big problem for republicans. if you step back and look at the budget talks, they're actually pretty close where john boehner is, senate democrats are, where daly and the white house are right now. they can get big cuts and i think boehner would love to have those cuts. a lot of them are willing to shut down the government. this only causes more agitation for boehner and those who would like to get a deal. >> kelly, we talked about marco
rubio before, talking about regime change in libya. he's written a letter saying he's not going to vote to raise the debt ceiling. shutting down the government over the budget is one thing. not raising the debt ceiling, that's when it gets serious? >> members like rubio have planted a flag on that. it will be very intense over the next few days. the vice president was on the hill last night. he put the number somewhere at 33 billion in cuts. republicans are saying, no, no, no, we're not putting numbers out there just yet. nothing is settled until everything is settled which is a classic washington line. i think today when we see the tea party and newt gingrich and his influence, it's almost like everything old is new again. one thing that some of those members could see is a sense of what happened in '95-'96 and maybe get benefit out of that that night not be what you initially expect. you take the teenagers to see the movie before prom night about don't go off the road. >> yes. >> again, jim, how fascinating. you were covering it in '59.
how fascinating that newt gingrich who was constantly at war with republican freshmen like me who wanted to do what the freshmen want to do now, did that same newt gringrich trying to side with him and going against john boehner who's in his role. it really strains the imagination and the credibility once again of newt gingrich. >> throughout his career he's been everywhere on the political happen. if you look at him as a candidate, he's trying to be the hard right candidate on budget. he's warning that islamists might one day soon take over the country. >> pat? >> joe -- >> he loves our country. >> are you saying newt is showing inconsistency here? >> i'm not concerned, i have to say, i think it's very unfair. it's what newt does. it's really disingenuous and unfair to john boehner. boehner is now wearing that crown that gingrich, you know,
carried where he had to take care of really conservative guys like me and then the moderates and then -- so i think it shows more than recklessness. i think it is unbelievably irresponsible toward john boehner who was a loyal member of newt's brigade. boehner always attacked guys like me to defend newt. this is how newt gingrich repays loyalty to john boehner. >> he's going to be part of the lexicon, pulling a newt. it will mean a lot of things. john vandehei, thank you very much. kelly o'donnell, thank you. >> i have to head off to do the "today" show. >> right. jay-z under investigation by the nba?
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it is true, it's difficult having this name. i am brace it. i freely embrace it. it's so much part of me, it's part of the campaign slogans. i use vote for weiner, he'll be frank. vote for weiner, he's on a roll. who is boehner fooling? what am i like anthony weiner? i'm serious, brother, embrace it. you know what i mean? >> 34 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." look at that weather. ugh. oh, god, is winter every going to end? >> no, it's not. about six, seven, eight inches of snow up in vermont and new hampshire. >> a quick look at the news for you. a new report "new york times" in the warns that america's public
schools may see the most extensive layoffs of their teaching staffs in decades. it doesn't make any sense. school districts from rhode island to california have reportedly begun notifying teachers that they could lose their jobs in june. however, the report notes that because most school budgets are just estimates in march, districts routinely exaggerate the likely cuts. that's great. moving on, a new poll conducted for xavier university center for the study of the american dream finds that only 23% of americans believe the country is headed in the right direction. icly83 hveest pago. 79% have less trust in big business. 78% in government and 72% in media. >> yes. >> that's fascinating. that feels just right, actually. i think the viewer is much more pragmatic. >> let's go over these really quickly, the right track, wrong
track has long been the number that pollsters have looked at to predict a president's performance. these numbers are absolutely horrific. as bad as they've been, congress' numbers are lower than they've ever been. ever been. what's itug as bush was at the end of his administration. where bush was about 25% approval, 83% said wrong course, economy bad, 93%. if you take a look at all these things, i think it's a crisis of the system. >> there's a systemic crisis. >> obama is up at 45% or so which i think is pretty darn remarkable. >> i think historically speaking, i talked to david axelrod about this a while ago, they're happy where they are politically. what's remarkable is how many people still believe in the american dream and they can achieve it. we have structures prohibiting
people from achieving that. the teacher cuts are the thing i'm talking about. at the same time people think they have a lifetime of success -- >> we're punching ourselves. >> we're talking about bringing in corporations. people don't have faith in most -- manufacture the public schools, especially in the inner cities, they're talking about bringing in corpses and charter schools. in other words, what we established and what was so great in the '50s and '60s, people think that system is failing. we need an alternative. >> we were talking to connecticut's governor this week as well. he tried very hard to find a positive way to look at washington but basically said it is not working at its optimum at all. i think that's an understatement. >> there is a lack of confidence in america right now. all of the institutions. look at the scandals that have rocked our major institutions. >> exactly. >> let's go just the past decade. in 2000, the election, that was an absolute catastrophe. >> for many people that was government confidence. >> and the supreme court as
well. in 2001, of course, 9/11 and what was missed there, 2002, enron, we had worldcom, we had the wall street crises where you had a lot of traders doing a lot of really sleazy things. those scandals have continued throughout the decade. you can go year by year, katrina and the horrific response to katrina. >> abu ghraib and the military. >> abu ghraib. you can go through the corporations in wall street or whether it's the government and the scandals as far as the government goes. the church, look at the catholic church and the scandals that have rocked the church. >> the one institution that is still is respected, the military. >> it garners the most respect, the united states military, beyond reproach. >> i think there's an opportunity here for obama or a republican yet to be named. >> let me just say really
quickly, there are two institutions. i'm leaving out an important institution, the u.s. military and willie geist. >> i know. >> you look at willie geist's poll numbers. >> look at him. >> do you trust him to read your sports every morning? >> do you want me to do sports this morning. >> better if we don't, mika, with due respect. i've been pushing this yankees as david, red sox as goliath. the new york papers, check this out, the yankees, the little team that could. >> what is that? >> and look at this one, hot dogs -- >> highest payroll in sports. >> hot dog as in underdogs. the yankees are the hot underdog in baseball. beautiful yankee stadium. there it s. that's a little team. >> that's a beautiful mall. seriously. >> there's great shopping in there, joe. there really is. for a lot of people, today is the best dave the year. opening day of major league baseball. here's some of the games, a breakdown. you have the yankees opening.
hopefully if the weather holds up against the tigers. the drives, a lot of people picking them to win that division. the nats if that weather holds, they'll be hosting the braves, brewers and reds in cincinnati. later games, l.a. and kansas city, the padres and st. louis and there's a late game of defending world champ giants and dodgers. the red sox start tomorrow in texas. >> very exciting. willie, what are your picks? just national, american league, what are your picks. >> i genuinely believe red sox. are you all right with that? >> yes. >> i think the giants go back again this year. red sox/giants and the red sox win it all. you spend that kind of money you're going to win a title, joe. >> why aren't the yankees in the yankees spend more money than the red sox every year. let's hope it's the red sox and the atlanta braves. >> don't take my word for it, take the "new york daily news" the little team that could. >> the yankees cc sabathia, who will be pitching today, is
several pounds lighter. he lost a ton of weight in the offseason. >> you've lost some weight. what was your -- it's none of my business, but how much did you weigh at your top number? >> well, last year i weighed about 315. i'm down to 209 now. i lost a little weight and i felt good this spring. >> how were you able to lose the weight. >> dieting. i always worked out but i'd go to mcdonald's right after. hi to cut that out. >> there you go. >> joe, you've got to replenish after you work out. >> yes. >> it's gatorade and a cheese burger. get the juices flowing again. >> see the results if america would cut junk food out of their diet. you need to lose weight. >> can you imagine, willie, you played football like me, two a days in florida. and seriously i would get the gatorade and drink three gallons and then i'd go to krispy kreme and get a dozen doughnuts and i would just eat them by the time i got home. >> absolutely. >> it's these drinks.
these drinks are like sugar water. >> get your sugar back up. >> with the seven essential vitamins and nutrients that only krispy kreme gives you. what's happening in the nba and jay-z? >> you had a coach that didn't believe in water breaks. >> he didn't. >> the nba confirms it is investigating why jay-z, the nba wants to know why jay-z was in the university of kentucky's locker room after the wildcats clinched their final four berth on sunday. the game was played in new jersey. he's a part owner of the new jersey nets. that's why he was at the arena where the game was played in newark. nba rules prohibit anybody involved with an nba team from having contact with a college player before he is eligible for the draft. >> that seems kind of silly. >> it's nonsense. he's at the arena, he went to congratulate the winning team. they were thrilled to meet jay-z. the nba is going through the motions on this one.
jay-z could care less by the way. >> willie, kentucky and uconn, that's going to be -- this kentucky team by the way, my parents went to kentucky. i've always, you know, sat there with my parents and watched. this kentucky team, man, against ohio state and then against unc, they're impressive. out of nowhere. >> and their freshman point guard, brandon knight is great. gotten better with every game. and by the way, he's a straight "a" student. >> wow. >> should be a great game. >> uconn or kentucky. >> uconn, kemba walker. and look at beautiful yankee stadium. mika's must-read op-eds, next.
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remember, it was just three years ago that gas prices topped $4 a gallon. because we were at the height of political season you had all kinds of slogans and gimmicks and outraged politicians. you remember that? drill, baby, drill, we were going through all that. and none of it was really going to do anything to solve the problem. >> welcome back to "morning joe." 47 past the hour. wow. look at that shot from chopper 4. thanks for that. time now for the must-read opinion pages. >> don't mock chopper 4. i love chopper 4. >> that reminds me, i'm sorry to veer wildly off track. but it's what i do. >> i know! >> i had a couple days off in pensacola. i saw a couple movies with andrew. >> that's nice. >> i saw "limitless." fun. >> i need to see that. >> the one that surprised me, "adjustment bureau" with matt
damon and emily blunt, which i love. she's great. that's a great movie. there's the final scene, the statue of liberty. i have to give it away, the statue of liberty falls and kills them both at the end. >> we really missed you. >> great movie, two great actors. i want you ha hear something else here. this is politics 101. if you're watching it at home and ever want to be president of the united states, follow the example of barack obama here. take a listen. >> choose the right guy to do this. he has a nobel prize in physics. he actually deserved his nobel prize. and this is the kind of thing that he likes to do for fun on the weekend. you know, he goes into his garage and tinkers around and figures out how to extract natural gas. >> i like it when he likes his jokes.
>> he loves his jokes. >> and he savors them. >> he does. pat buchanan, it's so great. if you're making fun of yourself, nobody else can make fun of you. that's shows a wonderful side of him. >> he's personable and likable. even the folks that disagree with him, say do you like him, is he a nice guy? that's much higher. >> reagan before. for reagan in '83 it was a miserable year, a terrible year. bad economy and lebanon, the chaos of all of that. and yet, the polls were going down, people still liked reagan. they still like barack obama. you see clips like that and you understand why. >> it's self-deprecating, being able to poke fun at yourself. having a human element is important. >> that can add a crucial amount in a close election. >> here's the question fareez zakaria asks in "the washington
post," does the united states want to own libya? no. it the endsen the tendency of a president is to be pushed to achieve a decisive victory, no matter the costs, no matter whether the -- a bit more military power will dislodge gadhafi's regime. my fingers are crossed. it would be far more sensible while hoping for the best to plan for other likely outcomes. and i mean, i would think also what if gadhafi declares a cease-fire? what do we do? >> do we want to own libya? >> no, you don't. i think you have to get rid of him. i think the president didn't think it through when he started the war. when you do that, you have to finish it. you can't say, look, we protected benghazi, we bloodyed up his troops and now we have to go home. >> i think they sat there and thought we don't want to start a war. we certainly don't want to start a war alone.
>> he said gadhafi must go. >> he did. >> how do you get him out thereof. >> you tell me. put cia agents on the ground and have them take him out. oh, wait. >> there are a few points to make here, though. obama is really going to have trouble keeping his coalition here. andrew sullivan at the atlantic, he wrote a scathing blog post, what he is doing? this say stupid war. secondly, there's a cost element. $373 million every six days is what the congressional research survey says. during a budget crisis that's a lot to spend. thirdly, i'm glad the media is being skeptical about this. it's what was needed pre-iraq. i think obama will have to answer the questions. >> the bottom line is you should never go into war, mika, unless you know what the exit strategy is. you don't go in until you know when you'll come out. george bush didn't have the answer to that in iraq. we still don't have the answer to that in afghanistan and barack obama doesn't have the answer to that in libya. >> it's not a war, it's a
limited engagement. what's next, willie? >> with american boots on the ground. remember the tim pawlenty ads, stephen colbert has his answer to those ads and it is good. you don't want to miss it. we're america's natural gas. and here's what we did today in homes all across america: we created the electricity that powered the alarm clocks and brewed the coffee. we heated the bathwater and gave kelly a cleaner ride to school. cooked the cube steaks and steamed the veggies. teaid dad, aom, and ighborr o. and tomorrow we could do even more. we're cleaner, domestic, abundant and ready now. we're america's natural gas.
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who's that sitting there with you, willie? >> look who just came in. mike barnicle joined us in house. >> has he been sitting over there for an hour? >> no. >> the tim pawlenty videos, one last week where he talked about the exploratory committee, his vision for america. there where are signs of flags and fireworks and holding people's hands and children playing ice hockey. well, stephen colbert is getting jealous. last night he aired his new ad for what he calls colbert pack. >> we are the american people. when push comes to shove, i will shove you in front of a train. taxes are bad. fireworks are pretty. we put a man on the moon. why can't you hold the camera steady? pawlenty, joining
scott walker, join me joining tim joining scott at colbe colbertpack.com. >> chewbacca was in there. we had a showcase showdown "the price is right." >> and katy perry. >> she was in there. >> colbert for president. i think i speak for everybody. >> i like the obesity shot, the belly, just for no reason. up next, bloomberg's al hunt will join the guys in d.c. keep it on "morning joe," brewed by starbucks.
which republican will be elected the president of base-istan. base-istan, the rarest of countries where every part of the country is in its middle? even its coasts are its heartland. you can't use the lame stream media to reach these voters of your base so the candidates must be resourceful to ensure they appeal to the broadest swath of narrow people. in this regard, tea party darling michele bachmann is an early front-runner. her state of the union response bypassed not just the lame stream media but the cameraman.
we all know the dennisons of base-istan are somewhere over -- [ laughter ] >> welcome back to "morning joe." it looks like winter in washington. that's because it still feels like it. we have pat buchanan and sam stein with us here in washington. joining the table, the washington executive, editor of bloomberg and host of political capital with al hunt, al hunt. good to have you with us today. is mike barnicle actually here or is he just sort of, you know hanging out? >> if it's opening day, you know mike barnicle will be here. >> the nationals start 0 right here in washington at 1:00 today. the sox starts tomorrow in texas. what's it looking like? who are your picks this year, national and american league? >> well, i pick the boston red sox in the american league. >> yes. >> and i have a surprise pick
for the national league, joe. it is the atlanta braves. >> all right! >> okay. >> yeah. philadelphia has that rotation but they have a weak team beset by injuries. >> fascinating. al, you a baseball fan? >> huge fan. i pick the nationals in 201. >> do you really? >> four years. >> it's going to come. >> strasbg will peak by that. >> willie is a great prognosticator. you should have seen him on charlie rose the other day. >> i had duke going all the way. >> they lost by 90 to arizona. >> sure did. >> that was a stunner. >> we have a lot to talk about. let's start with news out of libya. the white house is debating whether to arm libyan rebels fighting moammar gadhafi's troops but american officials are acknowledging that cia operatives are on the grounded there. the spies are reportedly trying to fill in gaps and understand who the rebel leaders are and with whom they are assigned which there are some questions
there exactly, especially if we are considering arming them. yesterday, white house press secretary jay carney reiterated the administration was keeping all options on the table. >> the president said very clearly, in one of his interviews yesterday evening, that he's not taking anything off the table. i mean, he's not ruling something in or ruling something out in terms of lethal assistance to the opposition. the broader question of assistance to the opposition is one we're looking at very closely. we're coordinating with the opposition and exploring ways we can assist them with nonlethal assistance. and we'll look at other possibilities of assistance as we move forward. >> sam stein, who's the opposition? you were talking about a report that al qaeda gets more people from eastern libya per capita than any other country. >> huffington post david wood looked into this. in 2006 per capita basis,
al qaeda, eastern libya was feeding more al qaeda in iraq nyone else. it was a huge problem. >> that's who we're defending right now. >> the intelligence community says there are a couple elements to the rebels in eastern libya right now. there are obviously al qaeda elements but more nationalistic elements, people who want to take over the country and make it into some sort of -- >> gadhafi is plague the al qaeda card, saying we're fighting the same people here. >> exactly. to a certain extent there's legitimacy to that. obviously, this is where we put the cia in for this purpose, to get a better understanding of who exactly we're aiding. the issue everyone has is they don't want to end up with another arming of the taliban situation. >> we're in a tough -- >> where's charlie wilson when we need him. >> we are in a tough situation. i don't have any idea how much of it is al qaeda. i read a good piece in the new yorker which suggested that not very manufacture them are al qaeda and that's what the admiral tells john mccain, the admiral in charge over there. i think the danger is whether
you can drive more and more into the al qaeda camp. that's why it's even more of a delicate situation. first of all, gadhafi has to go as you all have noted. if he doesn't go, we're in terrible trouble. >> you agree with that? >> no question. >> we're in a situation now, we've crossed the rubicon. >> when the president of the united states says he has to go web has to go, however he goes. >> right. >> then the question is what happens next? that's why it becomes even more delicate. what we want to do, we being the west, nato, the u.s., want to get into a situation where whatever we do is per received by those who take over as helpful. there are some good signs. for all the trouble, there was al jazeera the other day showed some libyan rebels wrapped into american flags. we don't usually see that from rebels. i don't want to be too hopeful. >> how much of the load are we carrying in libya right now? we're talking about the french helping us out as well as the british. >> we're carrying a much heavier load than we acknowledge we're
carrying. we have cia agents, the close-in aircraft, that's ours. i think the nato forces could technically be in control. >> i think the british fired off 12 cruise missiles and had to go home and get more because that was 20% of their total supply. the americans are doing, if you're talking about the bombing and the rest of it on the ground, targeting, we're doing the heavy lifting. and quite frankly, the only way the rebels are going to win this war is if the united states fundamentally wins it for them from the air and ey advance the last 100 miles and they retreated. >> some say that's the only way to go. >> we have to have troops on the grounded. >> if al's right and we cannot leave without gadhafi being removed from power or stepping down voluntarily, our investment is far greater than imagined. i brought up the number earlier. $373 million over six days, we're going to see that spike big-time, big-time. >> that's not going to sit well given what's happened in
washington. >> there have been several defections, there's another route which may be more defections, maybe somebody puts a bullet to this guy's head. >> to follow up on what al said not just look at libya, look what's happened over the past six months. as an american, one of the more remark anab remarkable things i've seen out of the last six months, the demonstrations in egypt. there was very little americanism. we supported a leader driven out of power, after 30 years, he was in effect propped up by the united states for three decades but you didn't see burning of american flags there. you're not seeing it in demonstrations across the middle east. this is say remarkable transformation, perhaps it's because of barack obama. perhaps it's because of obama and the bush freedom agenda. historians will sort through this. it's pretty remarkable what we're seeing in the middle east. >> the vote in egypt, the military and the muslim brotherhood got three out of four of all the votes.
in other words, mubarak's crowd and the muslim brotherhood and that fellow from google, whatever his name was tried to get up on the stage in tahrir square when there were a million out there listening to that ayatollah character and they bounced him off the stage. >> democracy is a scary thing. as we talk about all this, on capitol hill, the charnl of the house select intelligence committee, mike rogers argued for not arming the rebels. take a listen. >> we don't want to arm the rebels until we know who they are. we know what they're against, moammar gadhafi. we don't know who they're for or what they're for. we've had good experience in our history where things have gone wrong. it's very, very, very important that we take lots of thought and we have to havecen l before we consider arming the rebels. >> so rogers was one of several lawmakers briefed on libya by
white house officials. the congressman said he was disappointed by yesterday's meeting. >> i was very disappointed in the tone of the briefing. given the seriousness of this, i felt it was almost condescending to members. i think a lot of members felt that way. notification and consultation with congress was an important part of what the founding fathers believed the country ought to be. and i would hope the administration engages that in a more broadway here and does not dismiss the time frame of the war powers act. i would hope they wouldn't do that. i think it will do them a huge disservice. this is from somebody who supported the president's decision for a no-fly zone. >> al, you know, this happens. this has happened forever. talking about reading richard reeves' briography on reagan and reagan's briefing tip o'neill and members of congress on grenada and tip look the at him
and he goes -- >> it happens. this issue divides each party. the democrats you have dennis kucinich who wants to impeach obama. most of the other democratic leaders are for him. on the republican side, john mccain, we should have gone in harder and earlier, richard lugar, we shouldn't have gone in at all. newt gingrich has every position they all have. >> exactly. >> there are intraparty fights over there. >> foreign policy, i think over the past couple years, foreign policy has gone beyond right and left, in afghanistan, too. >> it certainly has. >> look at haley barbour. >> and mike huckabee has been skeptical about the war. he's not necessarily a tea partier. >> you finally started to read pat buchanan book. >> your time has come! >> you never strike a king unless you kill him. you don't go after someone like gadhafi unless we're going to take that guy out and so that's why -- don't just hit him and
say now we're going to leave. >> mike barnicle, looks like we've gone into libya, mika disagrees, but we've gone in there without an end game, just like we've been in afghanistan now for a decade without an end game. this at least to me doesn't seem to be anyway to run a foreign policy operation. >> well, joe be i think there is an end game. it's been articulated. whether they can achieve the end game is another question entirely. the end game is gadhafi has to go. >> but mike, who takes over gadhafi's place? is it al qaeda and does that require americans to be sitting in libya for another decade to make sure al qaeda doesn't get their hands on oil? >> well, that is their ultimate problem, is it not? because the only way you can win a war, check throughout history since people have been throwing rocks at one another, the only way you can win a war is ultimately, eventually with troops on the ground. you can do all sorts of incredible things from the air with air power. no doubt about that.
at the end of the day, the only way to win a war is with troops on the ground. what do we do about that? do we arm the rebels without really knowing who they are? this is a question this administration will have to wrestle with and come up with an answer fairly quickly. >> we have been throwing around the word war. al hunt, are we at war with libya. >> i wouldn't call it a car -- >> okay, everybody on this set has said war. >> i said yet. if obama gets lucky and something happens, they do something to gadhafi, then i think we're not at war. i think what happens later matters. if it's an al qaeda haven, it really martes. if it's just messy, politically it won't matter. >> this is no way to conduct a foreign policy. wouldn't you argue there have been really clear and consistent measures taken? to engage in libya here with
collective action and with warnings and things that perhaps weren't done in the past with other engagements that we are still in? >> i thought the president handled the first few weeks very, very well. i am sick and tired of the united states. since 1991, since the soviet union collapsed, the united states has done everything it seems unilaterally. i you know we've had coalitions of the willing and unwilling. in the end, we paid for it with american blood. we paid for it with american treasure. i loved the president sitting back and waiting for europe to get involved, for the arab league to get involved. but then we blundered our way in and as pat said, we ended up using our missiles, our money, 350 -- >> $373 million over six days. >> if we were still waiting right now, what would be going on, number one? >> it would be over. >> it would be over and gadhafi would still be in power. >> a lot of people would be dead. >> make that argument in syria. people are getting gunned downing in the streets of syria.
in yemen, they're being gund down in the streets of vhanan a have been critical. mika, we have called it consistently. do you think when we say we have to disengage from afghanistan we don't know the terrible things that will happen to some afghanistan people when that happens, when the taliban takes control? the united states cannot be the world's 911. and i think, you know, i think actually i'm channeling dick lugar here when i say, we need to know what we're getting into before we start sending american troops in harm's way. >> the reason that we're not going to go into syria is because it would be a quagmire and it would be a nightmare. >> right. >> the hope here is this one is easier. you do it when it can be done. if that proves wrong, if it's protract protracted, going on a year from now, that was a mistake. gadhafi you had a shot. he was hated by the rest of the
arab world. there was a coalition willing to try. that at least made it something to consider. syria, you can't even do that. >> that was the core of obama's speech, right, this was basically all things alined type of foreign policy, which is that it would be limited, it was going to be easy and we would prevent humanitarian disaster. we can apply that lodgic to other situations. >> not very many. >> so let's just not talk about it in terms of humanitarian assistance. >> yes. >> which is the hypocrisy when people -- we must do it because we have to save the people of benghazi. no. it was done because it's doable. >> yes. >> and at the end of the day we may be able to -- >> that would be hypocritical, too. >> there's something legitimate and honest about that. we do things that are doable. >> what do you do after you saved the people of benghazi? >> that's the question everyone wants an answer to. >> it's a good question. >> therein lies the problem.
it's an answer we still don't have for afghanistan ten years later. >> pregnant. that's the way you described it. >> pregnant. >> you're never a little bit preg instant what pat buchanan said. >> we are completely pregnant now. >> huffington post sam stein, thanks very much for being on with us this morning. we get an exclusive look at this week's "time" magazine. up next, andrea mitchell joins us on the set in washington. hi, andrea. >> let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? morning, mika. busy morning. lots beginning on. first things first, today, gloomy morning. light rain around, no snow to talk about, at least not yet. the exception is buffalo and rochester. as we go into today, on and off showers, temperatures cool. no heavy snow. that's later on tonight into tomorrow. the latest snow forecast, it's an interior event. bangor to portland, providence, hartford and new york, a glancing blow or maybe slush at
the end. for the most part, it's rain for you. interior new england, we could see 1 to 2 feet at the high elevation. concord, burlington and albany, you'll be doing a lot of shoveling. breaking news down in florida, we have a tornado watch. we have severe thunderstorms, that's 14,000 lightning strikes that are now moving between tampa and orlando. be careful out there this morning as you head to school or work in central florida. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks.
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they have allowed this power to gravitate to the president. the precedent for allowing a president to continue to act or initiate war without congressional review, without congressional votes, without the representatives of the people having any say is a real problem. >> that's rand paul on the senate floor talking about libya. with us now host of "andrea mitchell reports," you went to the congressional dinner last night. how was rand paul. >> that must have been great. >> keep their day job. >> it has been roundly panned off the record by everybody -- >> i had to leave early to come here. >> that's what it was. >> it's still going on. >> they are still there. >> let's talk about arming the rebels and the cia going there and of course we were talking before about how the president says no boots on the ground. >> right. >> i guess the cia agents are
wearing tasselled loafers. >> riffard engel -- the one good thing about the differenter last night, richard engel won the david bloom award, so deserved for his reporting in afghanistan with charlie company and named, of course, after david bloom who we lost during the iraq invasion from deep vein thrombosis. it was a great moment for us, given to him by the three daughters, the three bloom girls. richard engel's reporting on just the terrible fact of being with a rebel unit who were firing in the wrong direction. >> come on. >> getting these missiles and firing them the wrong way. >> in a new york press hotel, a mortar round came -- t. sounds like a bad movie. but we're arming people who don't know what they're doing.
>> that's why people like dianne feinstein told me, they do not want to see the rebels armed. they have a lot of tough questions they were asking of hillary clinton. >> the other question would be who exactly the rebels are, there traces and even more of al qaeda? >> flickers is what the nato allied commander, the admiral said the other day to congress. in fairness, he said the rebel leaders, the leaders of the opposition are responsible men and women. there have been intelligence reports some of al qaeda infiltration. >> hold on a second. our quote responsible men and women, do we suspect those might be words that could come up -- >> and haunt us? >> bite him later on? >> we don't know who they are. why don't we just say -- >> that's why the agency has sent people in, exactly to find out who these people are. that's why clinton met twice
with opposition leaders in the last two weeks, once in paris and once in london. the question is, is this going to be another afghanistan? the blowback where we had stingers firing on our troops when the mujahadin were fighting. >> if the president is going to arm rebels we need to figure out who the rebels are and if that's going to happen, you probably need cia agents in there working it. >> that probably can't be done as quickly as is necessary to get the arms to the rebels. it really is a conundrum of sorts there. andrea is right about afghanistan. part of the reason the taliban took over is because we didn't stay. we don't want to stay in libya. >> right. >> there are all kinds of very, very difficult questions. the first one as you said all along, gadhafi's got to go. >> right. mike barnicle, gadhafi has to go but we are arming rebels despite the fact we don't know who the rebels are. >> considering arming rebels. >> they're firing at hotels where members of the foreign
press are staying. >> yes, to andrea's point, there was a terrific piece in the front page of the "times" by chris chivers. not only are we trying to arm and supply a woefully under-armed opposition force to gadhafi, we are arming this group that they have no idea what to do, most of them, with the weaponry that we've given them. they are firing at the wrong targets. they are getting in their 1954 desotos and heading east. this is a real problem for this administration. i would assume andrea could speak to this better than any of us right now, i would assume in addition to cia operatives, we must have special force
operatives on the ground. the rebels have no command and control from news reports. they don't know where they're going, they don't know what their objective is. >> are special ops on the ground? >> british as well as american. the cia cover has been in afghanistan as well. that the cia special forces have been operating a lot of the afghan war and have been for a number of years. so whatever flag they're under, they're in there. >> right. >> presumably want them in there. the president did sign a finding under that 1974 law. it's all really political. >> let me ask you about hillary clinton. you obviously follow her a good bit. it was leaked this was hillary's war in effect, she won the day with barack obama. how does she feel the war is going right now? >> i think she was reluctantly brought to that point. if you saw the trajectory of clinton's response it was at first to be skeptical, then we saw that switch.
the white house pushes back very hard against that narrative of hillary clinton, samantha powers, susan rice, an unlikely trio of strong women in the white house persuading barack obama. they said the president came to this decision. they're now facing a lot of skepticism on capitol hill, a lot of war wariness. >> there are so many unknowns here, that can't be predicted. everyone wants a plan. everyone wants an end date. everyone says there is no foresight to this. having said that, how much can you have? >> well, the other thing -- >> how much can you have? >> if you don't have it, don't send troops! >> i agree with all of that. >> the unknowns you don't know. >> i think the alternatives were even worse. >> exactly. >> letting gadhafi brutalize people not only was bad for libya obviously but it sent a terrible signal through the rest of the region. going in there unilaterally as you pointed out earlier would have been the third muslim country we invaded.
>> you agree or you don't with going in. if you agree with going in -- >> we'll have a half dozen pretty soon. pat, what about that? we are talking about america sitting back and barack obama allowing benghazi to be slaughtered. >> you could have held up gadhafi's troops and said everybody in benghazi, the guys that are vulnerable, get out, go into egypt. it's about 100 miles a way. this is really the three sisters war, those women, are responsible spore that. >> oh, my god. >> let's blame the women. >> no one know who's going to win the war. >> how about sarah palin calling it a squirmish. it's not a war, it's a squirmish. >> thank you very much, andrea mitchell for bringing that up. >> we shall return. >> we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this...is the network.
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we will keep on being a victim to shifts in the oil market until we finally get serious about a long-term policy for a secure, affordable energy future. i've got to be honest. we run into the same political gridlock, the same ier nertia t has held us back for decades. that has to change. we can't rush to propose action
when gas prices are high and hit the snooze button when they fall again. >> joining us now in new york, "time" magazine, managing editor, rick stengel. he's here to look at the latest issue of "time." good to see you. >> yes, right now between turmoil in the middle east and the nuclear crisis in japan, and obama's speech about energy, we do our annual environment issue. it's about the new new thing in energy, which is shale, a 400 million-year-old rock where the u.s. has the largest supply of shale of any country in the world. right now it fuels about a quarter of our energy supply and we have enough for the next 100 years. >> when i was a cub reporter coming up in the '70s, mike barnicle taught me about magazines. shale sells magazine. >> we have elizabeth taylor holing a piece of shale. >> perhaps you should have. >> let's talk about the options out there, the president made -- kind of did a presidential
ritual making it, we have to get off foreign oil, which people have been doing for half a century now. where are we right now? >> a lot of people say why aren't you talking about solar and wind power? i'll talk about that until the cows come home. right now that supplies less than 1% of our energy needs. natural gas or shale gas supplies about a quarter. nuclear, 8%. regular fossil fuels about 40%. in the next 20 years, even if there's rapid, rapid progress on solar and wind, it's still going to be maybe 10% of our energy supply. >> where is the shale located? >> western pennsylvania, marcellus shale, the largest shale deposit in the world. >> what do you do with it? >> 15 to 20 years ago, a texas oilman figured out a system, we call it trafracing now. once he decided to do that, once he figured out how to do that,
we realized where the deposits are, western pennsylvania is like the texas of the 21st century. it's bigger than saudi arabia in terms of natural gas. >> when you say extract the natural gas from the shale, are you talking about a mining operation? are you talking -- >> yes, it's a mining operation. you drill down, sometimes 5,000 feet and you use a tremendous amount of water. one of the byproducts of fracing is there's a lot of water that's used and the water becomes contaminated. there are people who are thrilled and delighted that -- in western pennsylvania in getting rich and farmers and folks feel like this is the worst thing that's ever happened to them. >> in your piece in the magazine, brian walsh says the industry will still fundamentally remake parts of the u.s. by drilling for shale and in the world of ways we won't always like. >> we want to get to a piece you have in the magazine about this burial fiasco. it's a shocking story.
we've been covering it for a couple years. salon.com is all over this. what's going on here? >> this is the latest extension of that. it's a tragic, tragic story. you have military families suffering twice. they suffer the loss of a loved one and suffering the loss of a loved one because arlington cemetery has misplaced them. one of the things mark has, pieces of paper that have the same name of the same person buried in two different places. they excavate and dig it up and find that the caskets are empty. the system has just been really appalling there. i think the new superintendent, the army itself, has to become much more transparent about what they're doing and let people know, this is the problem, this is how we're trying to fix it. >> how could this be? how could you misplace the remains of somebody who died overseas or anything for that matter? >> it's been an ongoing tragedy
for a couple years now. >> right. it will be going on for a long, long time. there are hundreds if not thousands of guys and women that are buried in a place that we don't really know about. >> it's a great piece, rick. as you've taught me many times, shale sells. shale sells. you've done it again, rick stengel. thanks so much. the cover is shale, the rock that could power the world. >> up next, the calls for growing natural debt. a red menace. that's what congressman jeb hanserling calls it. he'll be with us in washington to explain. we'll be right back.
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and so is speaker boehner. he's getting a lot of pressure from the tea party folks to dig in his heels, even if it hurts and destroys recovery that we have going now. what's worse, the country doesn't care much about the tea party. >> i'm sorry. wake up. wake up. yeah. it's all right. >> talking about cowboy poets? with us now, the republican congressman from texas, representative jeb hensarling. >> wow, you just told me something about him. >> amazing. look at this guy. >> can we say your age on tv? >> yes! >> doesn't hurt my feelings. >> 53. you look so young. >> you should have what he's having. >> the budget. it looks a lot like 95. it's a mess out there. the freshman pulling one way, boehner trying to pick up democratic votes. what's going on? >> we need to ask harry reid. the house republicans have passed a bill to start putting
the nation on a fiscally sustainable path, turn that battleship. >> harry reid thinks it cuts too much, right? >> you have to ask harry reid, obviously. what we done the have is we don't have a bill. we don't have a bill out of the senate. not only do we not have a bill out of the senate we don't have a plan out of the senate we're left to negotiate with ourselves if we're going to negotiate with ourselves, personalitily, i'd like to cut more spending which ultimately i believe will help create more jobs in america. americas want less spending and more jobs. >> how much do you all want to cut at the end of the day. >> we passed our bill, hr-1 that would provide $06 billion of savings over which was enacted last year. in terms of history, that's wonderful, the greatest cut since world war ii. its reducing last year's from budget by a whopping 2%. it may be historian but it's
hardly draconian. you have to stop spending money you don't have or borrowing roughly 40 cents on the dollar. it hurts job growth. threatens our national security. >> when do you expand it out, though, from you're dealing with 10%, 11% of the overall budget? are republicans ready to go after entitlement, social security, medicare? >> when you say go after, what we're ready to do -- >> to save them. >> save and secure them for future generations, including my first grader and my third grader. >> right. >> the american people deserve the facts. don't take my word for it. go to the website for the trustees for medicare and social security and they will tell you these are programs that are going broke. >> do you agree with marco rubio, if you're going to preserve the social security and medicare, you've got to tell future generations that you're not going to get it until you're 70? >> well, i served on the president's fiscal responsibility commission and even though the social security portion of that plan was not my
plan, in order to save it for my children, i'm certainly willing to put that on the table as i'm willing to do something called progressive price indexing as opposed to wage indexing. ultimately, i would have another plan but, again, these are programs that are going broke. if you don't embrace a reform plan, joe, you're embracing the status quo. the status quo under law is that my children get an automatic 22% cut. >> i think the congressman makes interesting points. to get the debt down to 60% of gdp in 2020 which is what most people say has to be done to be sustainable, you have to cut back on entitlements and increase taxes. that's what simpson bowles makes clear, that's what tom coburn and dick durbin make clear. you cannot do it without entitlement and tax increases. can't be done. if you can want to do it without tax increases, you cut social
security and medicare by $2 trillion by 2020. >> are you prepared to do that? >> i don't agree with that assessment. >> that's simpson bowles. >> i was there. i was part of the panel. here's part of the problem, al. they have tax increases in the plan but there is no guarantee that those tax increases simply won't be used to furthermore spending. number one, the reason i walked away from the plan, i respect those who do, frankly, a lot of good portions of that plan ought to be brought to the attention of the american people. i meet add the president of the united states rejected every single provision of his own fiscal responsibility commission plan. but number one, fundamentally, health care was not on the table. if you don't have health care on the table you're not solving the problem. second of all to increase taxes and not have a mechanism to ensure it's paying off the debt. >> that's andrews air force base all over again. >> let's say there is a mechanism. i would never support tax increases unless i knew medicare, medicaid, pentagon spending that everything was out there, the tax increases would
go to reduce the deficit. let's say we have the dreaded, we're going back to 2000 here, lock box, the al gore lock box, that those tax increases would go into the lock box. >> joe, come on. >> would you under those circumstances, say, yes, it's a possibility, eliminating the bush tax cuts. after all, if you eliminate the tax cuts you go back to the tax rates we had under reagan and clinton. >> one of the reasons i think we saw a slight uptick in the economy is at least for two years republicans helped forestall the single largest tax increase in american history. >> we added a trillion dollars to the debt in doing that. >> when we cut tax rates, we actually got more tax revenue. don't take my word for it. the recent unemployment, gdp. >> the last couple months were because we didn't repeal the bush -- nobody thinks that. >> it has everything to do with confidence and frankly, i think
divided government, at least lets people know they know what the upper limit of economic pain from the administration is. again, if people are going to try to bring tax increases to the table, which i don't agree with, they'll have to bring health care to the table and we didn't do it. >> no question. >> what about the debt ceiling and what are you willing to deal with going forwar isr oshort-term money? >> we're not -- no, nobody wants a debt crisis. but what we've said before, if the president of the united states wants our help to help pay his bills he'll have to start cutting up the credit cards. we need to see some type of significant action in reducing spending and changing the whole budget process. >> will you vote against raising the debt ceiling? >> there's the old saying that, you know, the classic definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. >> right. >> i would hope the president of the united states would not want to do that. >> by the way, i don't judge
you. you're looking at a guy that was crazy enough. i voted against raising the debt creeling to $5 trillion. that's how much it's gone up. i'm still as crazy. i'm asking you, will you follow in my path and just say no and put world markets in an absolute freefall by voting against the president? >> the president has it within his power to make sure that all creditor are paid. >> is it possible you vote no on raising the debt ceiling? >> i'm not going to sit here and negotiate this on your show. i hate to disappoint you. the president has it within his ability to pay all of our debts and we invite him to quit spending trillion dollar deficits -- >> i tried. i tried to get you on my crazy train and you would not bite. >> give joe a copy of your health plan, what you eat, your workout regimen. >> he's looking pretty good. >> yes. >> i'll send it to you. >> it's probably living in a place where it doesn't snow ten inches in april. >> maybe in a place where he sees the sun once.
>> once in a while. >> maybe. coming up later, democratic congressman elijah cummings will join us. first, willie what do you have in the cooler? >> sorry, mika, was that -- somebody is in my ear. i can't hear anything. barnicle and i were talking. nice job in the control room guys, again, wondeul work. coming up next, some y om moan let's just go to break. this guy with the cool tie is going to defend driving while intoxicated. go ahead. go to break. [ male annouer ] investing for yourself isn't some optional pursuit. a privilege for the ultra-wealthy. it's a necessity. find investments with e-trade's top 5 lists. quickly. easily. use pre-defined screeners and insightful trading ideas to dig deeper. work smarter. not harder. depend on yourself the one person you should trust
haimpblts, hey, now! welcome back to "morning joe." let's try this again. so we've got some meaningless stories to bring to you this morning. the house in the state of montana is debating a tougher dui law. but one montana congressman, a guy by the name of alan hale, says dui laws are destroying small business. see if you can follow along to his impassioned plea on the house floor. and his tie. >> these dui laws are not doing our small businesses in our state any good, at all. they're destroying them. they're destroying a way of life
that has been in montana for years and years. these taverns and bars in these smaller communities connect people together. they're the center of the communities. and i'll guarantee you, there's only two ways to get there. either you hitchhike or you drive. and i promise you that they're not going to hitchhike. >> god knows you can't hitchhike, so you've got to drive drunk. there are only two ways to do this, people. >> they're going to get there, one way or another. >> despite the argument made there on the floor, the tougher dui law, you'll be glad to know, passed by a vote of 88-12. >> are you serious! >> but that was impassioned. that was impassioned. >> that was williams jenning brian. that moved me! >> that's right, joe. destroying a way of life. he articulated that quite well out there. >> i should point out that gentleman is a bar owner. >> barnicle, there are a lot of people in the greater boston area that would agree, bars and taverns, the center of your community. >> it's the hub of the universe
in every neighborhood that i know. >> where do you think he was about an hour ago? all right. >> no doubt. >> what else you got in the cooler, willie? >> let's show this colbert thing again, because it was so good. tim pawlenty putting out these very dramatic movie trailer-style ads. stephen colbert last night with his answer. >> we are the american people. when push comes to shove, i will shove you in front of a train. taxes are bad. fireworks are pretty. we put a man on the moon. why can't you hold the camera steady? join me, stephen colbert, joining tim pawlenty, joining scott walker, that's joining me, joining tim, joining scott at colbertpac.com. join us! >> joe, did you catch iseman in
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the economy. >> obamacare is a disaster. >> it is maybe the most passive and out of touch presidency in modern american history. >> we don't like this radical socialism that's being shoved down our throats! >> boring, out ofst to win this [ bleep ] race?! >> why doesn't he show his birth certificate? >> you know what i did yesterday, it was very interesting. i said, where's my birth certificate? get me my birth certificate, and they brought it to my office. i have it. >> and then i said, you know what, dip my birth certificate in gold, give it some fake [ bleep ], and tell it to wait in my bedroom. that's how it is, trump 2012, i'm hired. >> good morning. it is 8:00 on the east coast. a live look at new york city. welcome to morning joe. it might be a cold and wet start to the baseball season in the northeast from what we're seeing. >> thanks, bill karins.
>> with us on set here in a rainy washington, d.c., msnbc political analyst, pat buchanan, nbc news capitol hill correspondent, kelly o'donnell, and political reporter for the you ha "huffington post," sam stein. and of course, at the helm in new york city -- >> the great. >> -- the great, adorable, beloved willie geist. >> he is beloved. >> trump was on o'reilly last night. chris lick told me that o'reilly's going this three-part special with donald. >> factor special. >> and he -- yeah, we've got some clips coming up, but he talks for 30 minutes about birth certificates and chris break it down. how was that chris? >> vintage o'reilly. vintage o'reilly. >> so o'reilly was -- chris said, was actually the voice of reason. he said they investigated his
birth certificate years ago, nothing there. but donald, though, come on, pat, donald is going out on this birther thing. i know you loved it when he was going after china but why is he veering so much into this birther stuff? >> everyone's putting this on the air, and if that's the donald, he narrows the appeals he's got. where polls show him right up there with the front-runners, right up there with romney. i don't know if that's realistic, but people are waiting to hear what the donald has to say. >> and he starts with this. >> exactly. >> that is the puzzling thing. >> the thing is, we've had a bad economy right now. it would seem to me, kelly, that he -- that guys a billionaire, many times over. he's had ups, he's had downs, but people -- americans -- it's like ross perot. they look up to billionaires, for whatever reason. >> it's the dream. >> fix the economy. fix the economy, donald, and he's talking about birth certificates. >> that's what's so puzzling. the whole notion of the ceo
president, sometimes people say, that's the way to go, and people are certainly fascinated by his capacity to build and build and build and everything is terrific. his favorite word, it's terrific. >> terrific. >> so it's hard to imagine why he thinks the birth certificate way to go is appealing. except, it has been effective. it's gotten him in the conversation day after day after day. >> he was in the conversation? >> it was already in the conversation. sam stein? >> it's about getting headlines. that's what he's good about. but he could also set his hair on fire and we'd talk about that too. >> yeah. >> i don't get it. let's run a few clips and then we'll get to news. seriously, it's a train wreck we have to watch. i'm sorry. >> people have birth certificates. he doesn't have a birth certificate. now, he may have one, but there's something on that birth -- maybe religion, maybe it says he's a muslim, i don't know. maybe he doesn't want that. or he may not have one. but i will tell you this, if he wasn't born in this country, it's one of the great scams --
>> absolutely, but i don't think that's the case. >> well, you don't, but i'm starting -- >> i don't think you believe that either. i think it's provocative. you get a lot of attention raising the question, but i don't believe -- >> i grew up with wall street geniuses. what they do in terms of fraud and how they change documents. and i'll tell you something, if you notice those dates were three days later. and here's what i ask people. who puts announcements -- two poor people, a man and a woman, with no money, to have a baby, there's announcements in the newspaper. >> the grandparents did it. >> the grandparents. nelson rockefeller don't put announcements -- >> there are birth announcements all the time. >> i've never seen one. >> really? they're common. >> what's he doing? never seen a birth announcement? >> i mean, well, okay, let's be honest, there was actually a birth announcement for obama. it's just ridiculous. >> there was! there was! >> and unless they planted that story when obama was born,
knowing that in 45 years -- >> seriously? >> this is about -- >> pat, is this the adjustment bureau in barack obama -- were there like men with hats? was john slattery walking around going, we will put a birth certificate -- seriously?! mika, you talk to this guy every day and we like -- can you not tell him to go back to bashing china? >> a friend of the show. >> economic nationalism is what he's got -- >> about the state of the republican party. >> i think it's insulting that we're talking about the birth certificate issue again. we shouldn't play into it. >> whoa! welcome back. >> if donald trump, who's a figure out there who's running well in the polls is going to that issue, we've got to cover it. >> no, we don't! that's ridiculous. this is settled, it's not an issue. >> willie geist, you, of course, in all of the editorial meetings at the start of the show, you're always saying, let's lead with
the birther stuff. let's lead with the birther stuff. we did it then, because it's april fools' day, by the way, parents, it's april fools' day tomorrow. but willie geist, donald is following your lead about the birther story. >> you know i'm one of the country's leading birthers. i used to think this was a cynical political play, as bill o'reilly said, to be provocative, but having talked to donald, it seems to me he really believes there's something here. he's going to keep pushing on this. and we have polls out now that show more than 50% of likely republican voters believe that president obama was not born in the united states. so despite our protests, it sounds like donald's going to keep riding this horse. >> okay, stop it. can i be serious for a second about this? >> yes. >> hey, you know what, it's 7 after the hour. now would probably be a good time to talk about how the cia is -- >> i'm going to say what really
should be said about this, because y'all are afraid to say it and everyone likes to start this stuff with, i like donald very much, but i don't like this. because i think this promotes hate and this brings us back and i thought we had gotten past this, i really do. and i don't care how seriously he feels about it, there are more important things we need to be talking about. and he had a chance. everyone wanted to hear what he had to say, because exactly where we are in time in this country, and people were beginning to look at him, but i'm sorry, this is a bad call. okay? >> i agree. you didn't have the guts to say it, none of you had the guts to say it. love you, but it doesn't work. and it's mean. >> i'm just glad we're not talking about food coloring this morning, because that made me really tired on vacation yesterday. >> i saw that on the "cbs evening news" last night, it was important, whether or not food coloring in food -- >> good lord! come on! the cia's in libya, doesn't we want to talk about that? >> does it increase hyperactivity in children. it's a big question.
>> okay. for the love of god, let's talk about libya. >> okay. although president obama has insisted no ground troops will see action in libya, cia officers are apparently on the ground in libya, coordinating with rebels and sharing intelligence. in fact, president obama reportedly signed an order authorization the action within the last two hours -- two or three weeks. however, the white house has not decided yet whether to take the further step of providing weapons to the opposition -- >> let me say something to that. so these people that are in labla libya right now, these americans, i take it, sam stein, they're not wearing boots, right? because there's not going to be boots on the ground, right? but there are boots on the ground. >> as i understand, there are americans on the ground -- >> but they're not troops. >> hold up! are you kidding me? >> we put the cia to yemen and -- >> oh, no, no, no, i'd do it in a second, but i wouldn't tell americans that there weren't americans there. >> well, he said troops. >> tiptoe towards war.
moer more or less, we're there, by definition, we're just not saying it there. these are americans, providing intelligence, they're doing what you and i would do. but it's a war. >> marco rubio is sending a letter today to mitch mcconnell. >> yeah. >> and he's saying, let's just -- let's come out for regime change. let's back the president, push the president into doing what he's doing already, and that is, overthrowing gadhafi. you know, the president, i'm sorry, i wrote an op-ed about it in politico. we're talking about it here. he's just being hypocritical. just come out and say "we want to remove him from power." if he does that, fine. >> i think there's a lot of credence to what you're saying. we are in a midgame here, and everyone knows that the end has got to be, remove gadhafi, right? but as long as he's pushing back the rebels, then we're in a real bind. then we have to put cia boots on the ground, we have to consider arming the rebels. >> why doesn't he just come out
and say, we are going to take out gadhafi? he'd catch a lot less grief. >> well, he does not will the end or removal of gadhafi, because he is unable right now in his own mind to will the means. if you say he's got to get out of there, you'll have to arm the rebels, train them -- >> that's the de facto reality. you've said it yourself. gadhafi cannot survive. everybody knows he cannot survive. >> you've got to will the means. you've got to say, look, he is gone, if we have to send the marines up to tripoli and take him out of there. and obama's not prepared to will the means. >> so, kelly, is this about the president not wanting to upset democrats more than anything else? >> i think the president probably did not envision he would be in a position to have to make some of these decisions when he had been so strong about opposition to iraq and there's some similarities to how he is describing this. certainly has had to push things forward in afghanistan. and i think this is a very uncomfortable place for him to be. and i think that if you look at
the end game and how uncertain that is, it is a very complicated thing for him. >> and mika, the problem, and sam's got it right, he's in this middle ground. sort of this dead zone where he has to go on tv and says, this is about a humanitarian mission, but it's not, it's -- we don't want to remove gadhafi, but i don't think he should survive. the president's finding himself in a very difficult position. and it may just be easier to say, we have engaged him, he is now our enemy, we must win this war. >> i think he is in a difficult position, if you look at this in the terms of the 24-hour news cycle and pick apart anything minute by minute. but if you look at how he has accomplished every step of this, beginning from end, it actually has been thought out. and i think we need to wait just a little bit. >> well, then, answer the question, why are we there? >> why are we there? >> oh, come on. >> why are we there? >> we are there to defend -- >> exactly.
>> no -- >> what? >> humanitarian mission. >> and? >> well, we're there -- >> there are two problems to that. you can always go and respond and say, if we're going into libya, why not go into a place like darfur. >> i agree. but i'm talking about carryi ii out the mission. >> if the mission is to get rid of gadhafi, then you go get rid of gadhafi. because let me tell you, it's obama versus gadhafi right now, and the world knows that, and if gadhafi survives, what tactics will he use to retaliate? he may blow up airliners, he may massacre people. if you say the president's got to go and you're the president of the united states and a superpower, he's got to go. >> i do agree with that, but i believe in terms of getting collect i have action and waiting him out, there has been a methodical approach to this. >> sam stein? >> but he has diligent -- and mika's right about this, he was diligent and thoughtful of getting the support and going
through the skpu.n. and making an international mission. but now we're on this middle ground where we are basically involved in regime change, but we're not going to say it. >> kelly? >> i think what's interesting here, what you're saying about, if you don't go further, what are the consequences? and if you look back in history, you've got some republicans taing about at hapnein '91, leaving saddam hussein in power after the gulf war. and i think on the world stage, it is obama versus gadhafi, it's not sarkozy, it's not the prime minister of england, cameron, it's just not. it's obama. >> and pat and i especially praised the president for the lead up to this. i think it was great that he waited for france, he waited for england, he waited for the arab league to step out there. that to us, at least, well, a lot of neocons hated it. to us, i think that showed the type of restraint american presidents needed to show. but we fumbled and bumbled our way in there, he hasn't defined the mission, and at this point, if you just want to talk about
the reality of the situation, it is barack obama versus gadhafi. this is a man that has already blown up an airliner filled with college students. he cannot survive. the president needs to come out and say, this regime cannot survive. as much as i did not want americans there, let's stop playing games. pat, let's stop saying "no boots on the ground." he needs to go all-in. because he cannot survive and everybody in the world knows that. >> but if you say he's got to go and the gang out there in benghazi can't do it, quite obviously, even with american air force, then you've got to say, look, in the last analysis, if we have to do a northern alliance with americans going in there and throwing him out, that's what we've got to go do, because he cannot survive. but you've got to make the command decision and then everything falls into place. >> this is what too many times american leaders do. they stumble into a war like this, where we now put ourself -- >> i don't think he stumbled
into this. >> -- where we now say gadhafi can't survive, but who replaces gadhafi? is it going to be elements of al qaeda? it's a horrible situation. this shoot first and ask questions later. >> i don't think that's where -- >> but it is. >> he did not shoot first. >> who's going to replace gadhafi? he doesn't know. we're in a terrible position. terrible position. maybe donald trump will go run libya. >> but this president hasn't put us in a terrible position, okay? and i mean, again, how he has carried out reacting to a crisis that came to hisde-- >>t sno- >>- has en methodal. >> it was not lindsey graham who ordered over 100 missiles fired on libya. that was the commander in chief. >> if you do that, you're pregnant. >> excuse me? >> that's it, my friends. >> once you do that, you're
what? >> you're pregnant. you're in the war. >> after the break, we'll bring in congressman elijah cummings and his thoughts on a possible government shoutdown and his thoughts on obama's plan to end the foreclosure program. and todd purdum will be here on the set this week. but first, let's get a check on the forecast with bill karins. >> i hate him. >> you have a right to today, joe. let's get down to the breaking weather news in florida. we've had some tornado warnings just north of orlando. really nasty storms are rolling through orlando, disney complex, the universal studio complex. those are the lightning strikes, over 10,000 in the last hour alone and we've seen winds gusting up to 50 miles per hour. it's a rough morning for travel in central florida. now, eventually we'll see a big storm for new england. right now, just drizzle and some showers. it's cold and chilly and damp, but the problems will come later on tonight as the storm develops and heads up the coast, becomes a nor'easter off of cape cod. heavy snow in interior sections of new england. the mountains y s youmountainou
feet. concord, burlington, could have enough to shovel. but the bigger cities, looks like mostly rain with a little bit of snow at the end tomorrow morning. the forecast as we go around the rest of the country, really not many issues. the west coast looks fantastic. we'll really focus on new england later on tonight and the storm in florida this morning. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] this...is the network.
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well, the senate says, we have a plan. well, great. pass the damn thing, all right! and send it over here and let's have real negotiations, instead of sitting over there, rooting for a government shutdown. >> well, you see? compared to the harry reid sound bite that we rolled. i'm awake. >> he keeps you awake. harry reid is droning on about cowboy poets. with us now, democratic congressman from maryland and ranking member of the house oversight committee and a good friend of mine, congressman elijah cummings. good to have you back. >> good to be with everybody. >> so boehner there -- >> pass the damn thing! >> speaker's getting a little excited. do you think he's feeling a little pressure from the freshman? >> i think he's feeling a lot of pressure. and the tea partyiers are battling hard. no matter what the president does, no matter what the senate does, the tea partiers, i don't
think are going to be satisfied. they're in town today and they're putting on a lot of pressure. >> is to house has passed a bill. the senate has not passed that thing yet. do you expect the senate to pass it? have you heard from democrats in the senate that they're going to move anything soon? >> i understand that they're trying to do something. there's some reports that there are some negotiations about to go on or are going on, but it's hard to say. i just don't think that the republicans in the house are going far enough. in other words, you know, they're talking about now we've already had $10 billion worth of cuts. now they're talking about another $23 billion. and basically, the republicans are not budging, as you well now. now they're supposed to be doing some talking. >> so the speaker, i understand, is starting to talk democrats. >> yes, because he's going to need them. >> he's going to try to work a deal with the blue dog democrats instead of -- and he's going to have to say good-bye with to a lot of his freshman on this vote. is this a dangerous thing for a speaker to do?
whether it's nancy pelosi or whether it's john boehner now doing it. >> i think it's a dangerous thing for boehner. and i think it -- >> and we're talking politically. >> just politically. i think it splits his party. and let me tell you another thing it does. it empowers, in a strange way, the tea partyipartyieierpartier. they may get even more upset. and these tea partiers are worried about primaries, joe. they're worried about folks even more conservative than they are challenging them. so if they've got to go to democrats to get votes, so be it. but this is one vote they will not get. andrea mitchell, john boehner has earned high marks. and i think a lot of washington journalists have been surprised by how steady he has been. do you suspect he's going to have to become more animated now to play to some of the more
conservative elements of his caucus? >> but he still wants an agreement. john boehner, it strikes me, is a legislator. and i say that -- i think you'd agree -- in a positive sense. >> yeah. >> he wants to get something done. >> a lot of times, we're surprised by people who get positions and let us down. this is -- john boehner -- and i know there are going to be a lot of bloggers, you know he did this. but he has been, for the most part, i think a pleasant surprise for a lot of people about how responsible he's been and what a grown-up -- >> congressman, would you agree with that? >> i would agree with that. and i would think that the tea partiers and the more conservative freshman are so far to the right that i think it makes boehner feel a little uncomfortable. and there has been talk that maybe there's a split between cantor and boehner. boehner leaning more to more of a moderate -- first of all, all of the republicans, joe, are to the right. >> we're talking about moderate
by some pretty conservative standards. >> that's exactly right. >> you realize what trouble you're causing right now? >> exactly. >> why do you think he's doing it? like barack obama -- like barack obama -- look at him laughing! look at this! >> i'm just calling it like i see it. >> like obama praising john huntsman, right? >> -- concern about the republican leaders. >> so pat buchanan, if you're scoring at home, barack obama says that john huntsman was a great member of the team and david axelrod said that romneycare was the basis of obamacare. and now elijah cummings says john boehner is -- >> doing a wonderful job, boehner standing up to those tea party crazies. >> i didn't say that. >> pat, is there a split right now between cantor and boehner? >> i think there is. and that's what i was going to ask the congressman. what does cantor do when they cut -- i think boehner's doing
the right thing, quite frankly. they've got to get a deal before the end of the year. >> and the american people want compromise. >> and for you're going to get $22 billion, $23 billion more, that's half of where they started out. but i do think that cantor is really saying to the tea party folks, i'm your guy and i would have gone much harder. but i think he's got a problem too, because where does he go on this vote? i think he's got to vote with the leadership. he's part of it. doesn't he? >> cantor, no doubt about it. cantor has to -- andrea, we've seen it before. cantor has got to go along with boehner, no matter what boehner does. >> for now. and do enough for the tea party folks to let them know that he is their standard-bearer down the road. >> if you're in leadership, and i show john boehner doing this time and time again, elijah. he disagreed with gingrich, but you vote with the speaker or
you're out. >> clearly, the republican have said extremely disciplined with regard to issues they really care about. but you've got to keep in mind something. i do believe that cantor will vote with boehner. and what he will say is, and what he's been saying to the tea party freshman. he said, look, we've got two more shots at this. we've got the debt ceiling and we've got the 2012 budget. and so he's figuring that even if they don't get everything they want right now, they're going to do it a little bit later on. so he has a plan. i believe boehner has a plan. and that's what he's been telling them. so they're kind of relying on that saying, okay, we may have to hold our noses now, but he's still going the need democratic votes, no matter what. >> all right. so let's talk about the housing market, which is something you've talked about before on th sw. it's clearly -- some are even saying we could face a double dip. it's not looking good. and you've been working, congress has been working to try to deal with the foreclosure crisis, which is something we
haven't talked about lately and is still very much an underlying key issue to the problems that we face. >> no doubt about it. we had in government reform committee yesterday, we had neil barofsky, the ig for, and he ta about the problems with the hamp program. now the republican congressman has now eliminated all the prevention programs. i mean, they haven't eliminated them completely, because it hasn't gone to the senate. but they sipl pevti reose. and this hamp program is a program that the president touted and believed that it would save some 3 million to 4 million people's houses. but unfortunately, it didn't work that way. and it didn't work that way because a lot of people basically didn't qualify. why? because they had lost their jobs or there were many who were making too much money and we didn't want to be saving people's houses that could pay their mortgages.
so there was a limited number of people that we could help. and that program has not as many people as we thought it would. but it's a start. and basically what the republicans have done is said, look, let's get rid of that program, but they're not replacing it with anything. and that's the problem. i think geithner could do better, to be frank with you. i think he could do a lot better in making sure that we have programs to help people losing their houses. >> how bad -- has the situation improved at all over the past 12 to 18 months? >> not really, because, basically, what you have, joe, is you've got the servicers, the banks, and basically, they're not cooperating. they're not pushing and allowing these modifications. and if you don't have the cooperation of the banks, you've got a problem. and you've got to have a hammer over them, is there is no hammer. so that's a real -- so hopefully we will -- what i was hoping to do -- i said, don't end the hamp program, mend it. because there are still people who are suffering. i've got an event coming up on the 25th.
my sixth event. i promise you, we will have grown men coming in to that room crying, tears, because they're getting ready to lose their houses. and usually we save about 75 to 80% of them. because we put the banker -- the banks together with the borrowers and make them work out a deal. >> sounds great. >> i hope you're able to keep that going. >> we've got to do it. >> thank you very much for coming in, congressman elijah. >> you got me in some trouble there. >> you are in trouble. >> no. john boehner's the one that doesn't -- look at that! he loves causing trouble for the speaker. >> all right. when we come back, the leading candidate to replace warren buffett resigns without warning. business before the bell with erin burnett straight ahead.
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watch right there. ♪ see you drive around town with the girl i love, and i'm like [ bleep ] you ♪ ♪ in my pocket, i'm like [ bleep ] you ♪ ♪ if i was richer, i'd still be with you, [ bleep ] you ♪ >> let's get a check of business before the bell with international superstar, erin burnett. she is live at the international stock exchange. erin, great drama in omaha. break it down for us. what's going on? >> there is. first, i want to let you know, jobs numbers came ein, they wer good, guys. so that's the key thing to watch in terms of the market. >> what does that mean? >> it means we had a drop in people filing for unemployment claims. we're below that 400,000 level. usually that means steady job growth. we've had that for three weeks and tomorrow we get the big payroll number.
>> so we're at 8.9 right now? >> we're at 8.9 on the unemployment rate. that's expected to stay solid tomorrow at 8.9. so if it dropped, that would be another surprise. that's going to be the big number. and today's the last day of the quarter. this is the best quarter of this century. sure, it's a young century, but we haven't had a quarter this solid since 1999 for the markets. >> what do you mean, the best quarter of this century? it doesn't even feel like the best quarter of this year. what do you mean -- by what standards? >> okay, do you want to know the standard? >> yeah. >> just pure and simple, did your portfolio get bigger, joe. >> oh, for wall street. >> for wall street, that's right. now we've got to start worrying about inflation. you saw the comments in "usa today," walmart sees significant pressure, going to be inflation. and on top of it, you have this amazing water cooler story that is just something, to be honest, joe and mika, is going to add to the public's perception that the game is rigged. this is the warren buffett story. so david socal was -- seemed to
be one of the main contendered for warren buffett's job. he had a meeting in december with citigroup and citigroup says, here's a list of companies you should buy at berkshire hathaway and luberzoll was on the list. so he went out and bought shares of luberzoll and then he went to warren buffett and said, hey, we should look at buying luberzoll. those are the facts. he got $3 million added personally to his net worth when luberzoll was added to warren buffett. he said, i thought there was a 5% warren buffett would actually do it. i wouldn't have any control whether a deal would actually get done. that's his defense. and you know, to be honest, guys, it's very unclear if anything is formally wrong. what he did may have been completely above board, but as to whether a guy worked for warren buffett should ever be buying shares of companies that he's going to go pitch to warren buffett to buy. by his own admission, david
socal had only brought eight to nine companies over a decade for warren buffett to look at and luberzoll was one of them. >> i don't think that makes it better. >> any reporting that buffett knew that he had bought this stock? >> it apparently was mentioned to buffett in passing and he really didn't follow up on it, and at least according to what we know now, didn't have full information on it. but, again, i think the real issue here is, how does america feel when they see these kinds of things, especially if, indeed, it's fine. if this is fine, how does a retail investor feel? >> feel ripped off. >> a lot of america wonders how wall street could have the best quarter of this young century while so many people on main street are still hurting. >> that's right. >> there is a disconnect, erin, no doubt about it. >> this does not help. >> no, it doesn't. >> erin, thank you. >> thanks, guys. >> andrea mitchell, thank you as well. who do you have on the show today? >> we've got a great show, we've got mitch daniels, jim webb,
congressman roberts, the house intelligence chairman, elijah cummings. >> you've got them lined up. >> the hits just keep on coming. and maybe you can get rick stengel to talk about shale. >> you think? >> the big rock that he put on his cover. >> shale gas, the next big thing. all right. looking ahead, tomorrow we're going to have digger phelps and jay bilas on the show. looking forward to that. but coming up next, the lessons learned from the government shutdown of the 1990s. will it happen again? we've got "vanity fair's" todd purdum here to tell us next on "morning joe."
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happen again. it didn't work out so well last time for the republicans. it was the beginning of bill clinton's comeback, in a way. so i don't know. all i know is what i read in the papers, and it doesn't look so good. >> newt gingrich going to the hill today. that's a fascinating -- >> what's he doing there? >> he's stirring the pot. he's keeping things alive. and he's playing really hard to the right, even though he's been all over the map on a lot of these questions over the years. >> and back during the government shutdown, it was newt that was dealing with us freshman and it was also newt who basically had to go to war with the conservatives for several years. >> exactly. >> and now he is back, basically, switching positions. >> do you think speaker boehner has actually called him and tried to -- i would love to know what the private conversations . >> i don't know. now boehner's in the position he was in dealing with some unruly freshman. who called the meetings? newt or the republicans? >> i don't know.
did the freshman caucus invite newt to come see them? >> why would they do that? >> maybe they would do it to get inspiration from a visionary leader, by his own admission. >> you said there's not going to be a shutdown. but boehner's got three things coming up, they've got this coming up for this year, then they've got the debt ceiling, and our big budget with our friend from wisconsin putting out all those cuts. and the idea that the republicans will back down every time, i think they'd have a hard time doing that, wouldn't they? >> i think so. but i think there's two people who have to move. and obama cannot just be completely -- the democrats can't refuse to budge either. there's some obvious deals here that could be made if anyone had the will to make them. >> so take us back to 1995, and for those that don't remember, there were actually two government shutdowns, right? >> yeah, there was one in november, i believe. >> what happened in november? >> i was trying to remember the other day what the actual thing was, whether it was over a continuing wez lugs or whether it was over the budget. >> it was over medicare, wasn't
it? >> yes, and clinton would not let the cuts be as deep as they wanted them to be. and i can't remember why the second one happened -- >> but as far as t >> yeah, because, newt gingrich, they'd all been to prime minister rabin's funeral in israel and newt said he felt he got a bad seat and he closed the airport down -- >> they made him depart by the back of the plane rather than the front of the plane. >> so the "daily news" had a front page cartoon of newt with a baby, with a pink pacifier on the front page. >> that was a dark day, suddenly newt said, we'll shut down the government in part, maybe we could have kept it open if they would have let me sit in the front of the plane. then there was a second
shutdown. >> and then the white house had only essential staffers there and was very low key and there were late-night pizza orders, monica lewinsky met president clinton and snapped her thong at him and the rest is history. >> oh, my. >> january was the longer protracted. >> out of that came a pattern that then began to set the future course of the deals that clinton was making with republicans and it really in some ways, that was the beginning of his re-election year. >> now, let me ask you this, pat. bill clinton and dick morris were aligned. and they were river boat gamblers. and they were willing to stare down newt gingrich and the republicans to the bitter end. i don't know that i see barack obama sharing that same quality. just like i don't see boehner taking on the role of newt gingrich here. that's why i'm skeptical about a government shutdown. >> clinton had a very good line, as i recall. we were out there in iowa at the time. he said, i'm just not going to slash medicare, medicaid,
education, and the environment all these issues -- >> to pay for tax cuts for the rich? >> exactly. it was a very powerful message, simple, clear, compelling, he hit all these issues, and the republicans -- he threw them and the republicans collapsed. >> clinton and gingrich felt they could take the measure of each other, and there wasn't a chumminess, but there was a connection, and they knew what the other was doing. and i think the lack of personal chemistry between bayner and obama is also an issue. i think there's anything between them. >> how could that actually lead to -- at some point, don't both sides know that they have to come to something or they're both going to lose, especially if we have a shutdown? who stands to lose more? >> well, it's interesting -- >> that's the question. that's the key question. because newt, i think, and these guys felt we could win with a shutdown, but now boehner's clearly nervous over the possibility, and it seems to me the tea party is ready to do it, because a lot of them are
saying, this is what the country wants now. >> todd, what about on the other sk side, the white house? what's their attitude? >> they clearly don't want a shutdown, but everyone's still fighting the last war. so their reading would be that clinton won. i think the situation is a little bit different and possibly more risky for them, because the mood of the country's a little bit different and the tea party is out there. >> we had a pretty good economy back -- and people don't remember. but in '95, the economy was already fairly strong. we showed a right track/wrong track. right track, 23%. it is very dangerous for a president, any president, in these circumstances, not to strike a deal. >> one of these republicans may be saying is, look, obama is spending like crazy and this whole thing is going to come crashing down. and if we shut down the government for a little bit, we will be seen as on the side of the angels when the great crash comes. >> mike barnicle, what are your thoughts? who stands to lose the most if
there's a government shutdown? >> oh, i think definitely the republicans. i think -- i agree with everything that's been said here. john boehner, you just get the impression he does not want this to go to a shutdown. but the american public is going to blame the republicans. they're in charge, joe. they lusted for this prize, the speakership, for several years. they've got it, they control the house of representatives, they are running the dialogue on budget deficits, on cutbacks to the budget, and if the government shuts down, it's going to be on them. >> so todd, what is the end game here. what does -- do you think at some point obama and boehner sit in the same room and hammer out a deal, or do you think there is going to be a shutdown? >> presumably, eventually, they will have to sit in a room. even if there's a shutdown, the shutdown will end. >> maybe this will force the issue. >> yeah. todd purdum, "vanity fair,"
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oh, it's time -- >> welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. pat, what did you learn? >> four new york yankees will be lucky to make it into the first -- >> those poor guys. todd? >> i learned that you have indelibly fond memories of working with newt gingrich. >> it was a rough time.